Power Sellers Unite

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

Paypals buyer protection program means buyers can make a purchase and take parts from the item the buyer ships out to them then file a Paypal claim to get a refund. The buyer always wins the claim and the seller gets the item back minus some parts the buyer wanted.

Buyers can also make a purchase, file a claim then send an old broken item back that is the same thing the seller sent them and get a refund.

This doesn't happen all the time but I have talked to enough sellers that have had claims filed against them under suspicious circumstances and the Paypal claim went against the seller and the sellers received back their items they had sent out with missing parts or broken.

I myself have been sent back items on claims against me that were missing parts needed by the buyer. I've had buyers email me back looking for refunds on broken items and I found out that these buyers were trying to send me back items in exchange for what I sent them.

Most buyers on the auction sites are really honest but there are alot of buyers that like to swindle the sellers because they know Paypal & Ebay take sides with the buyers over the sellers. The seller stand no chance in a claim from a buyer since all the claims come down to the sellers word against the buyers word and unless the seller has a ton of "Proof" the seller will always lose. The buyer doesn't need any proof. The buyer justs needs to make the claim.

There are bad sellers but for every bad seller there are at least 25 bad scam buyers.

Paypal will not do anything about the scam buyers. It's just like a B&M store getting hit by shop lifters. Ya have to get proof and catch 'em in the act. Shop lifting is a constant headache for shop owners and these scam buyers are a big headache for sellers depending on the type of product a seller is offering up for sale.

2BOYSandTOYS · Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 10095 Location: Kansas

Welcome to PSU Not Happy. I've been fortunate to not have 'been there' for this scenario. I have noticed recently many sellers, esp. of used items are putting notices into their descriptions suggesting they've taken detailed photos of the item and parts and have marked each to ensure no fraud happens.

These statements can be written to deter scammers, and also to make good buyers feel protected/better about their purchase.

I think you should add a 4th option to the poll - for those who've not been scammed. Just a thought or suggeston!

Glad you're here!

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

2BOYSandTOYS wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Welcome to PSU Not Happy. I've been fortunate to not have 'been there' for this scenario. I have noticed recently many sellers, esp. of used items are putting notices into their descriptions suggesting they've taken detailed photos of the item and parts and have marked each to ensure no fraud happens.

These statements can be written to deter scammers, and also to make good buyers feel protected/better about their purchase.

I think you should add a 4th option to the poll - for those who've not been scammed. Just a thought or suggeston!

Glad you're here!

Doesn't matter what you put in your item description. If the buyer wants to take parts or send back the broken item in exchange for what the seller shipped to them and get a refund the buyer can do this and get the refund without recoarse and there's absolutly nothing the seller can do about it.

dlrane · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 2406

I had this happen with an Antique Vase one time. If I still sold on feebay I would do what 2boys just suggested to keep it from happening again. :wink:

2BOYSandTOYS · Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 10095 Location: Kansas

I've heard of sellers who have taken photos of the item during the packaging process to include the item 'as was' with the shipping label. In other words, dated photos of the item, the packaging, the shipping label, etc. and winning.

If the item is of significant value/breakable, I do always add insurance into the shipping and not give the option to the buyer. I see how a truly bad customer can part out an item, assuming they can put it back together - it's a shame folks think that way actually.

Where there's a will, there's a way. I will say that the protection for sellers is limited, and we must do all that we can to protect ourselves. :?

BKWBM · Joined: 14 Dec 2008 Posts: 1

Here is my experience: My buyer e-mailed me with problems about a motherboard so I replied send it bak I'll refund your money. The buyer responded that he did not want to return it he wanted to make it work. 3.5 weeks after he bought the item he filed a claim with paypal. Pay Pal sided with the buyer which was something I had done 3.5 weeks earlier. I ask for the item back. Pay Pal sends me an e-mail saying that they had received the shipping info and that I had received the item back and provided me the USPS tracking number. The number was from when I shipped the item to Dayton Ohio and when you use the number at USPS site it says left Hanoverton Ohio going to Dayton Ohio. I never received my item back and Pay Pal says I did and the matter is closed. I only have a 40 feed back so I dont understand how in the hell a person can become a power seller if Pay Pal acts like it is part of the current administration and takes from the sellers and gives to the dead beats. I mean if I could get my items back I would start marking them but since there is no way I can get items returned why bother. Any of you more expirenced sellers have any advice or is this a suck it up situation?

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

BKWBM wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Here is my experience: My buyer e-mailed me with problems about a motherboard so I replied send it bak I'll refund your money. The buyer responded that he did not want to return it he wanted to make it work. 3.5 weeks after he bought the item he filed a claim with paypal. Pay Pal sided with the buyer which was something I had done 3.5 weeks earlier. I ask for the item back. Pay Pal sends me an e-mail saying that they had received the shipping info and that I had received the item back and provided me the USPS tracking number. The number was from when I shipped the item to Dayton Ohio and when you use the number at USPS site it says left Hanoverton Ohio going to Dayton Ohio. I never received my item back and Pay Pal says I did and the matter is closed. I only have a 40 feed back so I dont understand how in the hell a person can become a power seller if Pay Pal acts like it is part of the current administration and takes from the sellers and gives to the dead beats. I mean if I could get my items back I would start marking them but since there is no way I can get items returned why bother. Any of you more expirenced sellers have any advice or is this a suck it up situation?

Sorry that happened to you. It happens to me frequently on mechanical & electronic items.

Paypal is owned by Ebay and Ebay does everything they can to keep buyer traffic coming into their sites even if it means letting the sellers get screwed over by scam buyers.

A Junkee Shoppe · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 1247

BKWBM wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Here is my experience: My buyer e-mailed me with problems about a motherboard so I replied send it bak I'll refund your money. The buyer responded that he did not want to return it he wanted to make it work. 3.5 weeks after he bought the item he filed a claim with paypal. Pay Pal sided with the buyer which was something I had done 3.5 weeks earlier. I ask for the item back. Pay Pal sends me an e-mail saying that they had received the shipping info and that I had received the item back and provided me the USPS tracking number. The number was from when I shipped the item to Dayton Ohio and when you use the number at USPS site it says left Hanoverton Ohio going to Dayton Ohio. I never received my item back and Pay Pal says I did and the matter is closed. I only have a 40 feed back so I dont understand how in the hell a person can become a power seller if Pay Pal acts like it is part of the current administration and takes from the sellers and gives to the dead beats. I mean if I could get my items back I would start marking them but since there is no way I can get items returned why bother. Any of you more expirenced sellers have any advice or is this a suck it up situation?
Not Happy wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
BKWBM wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Here is my experience: My buyer e-mailed me with problems about a motherboard so I replied send it bak I'll refund your money. The buyer responded that he did not want to return it he wanted to make it work. 3.5 weeks after he bought the item he filed a claim with paypal. Pay Pal sided with the buyer which was something I had done 3.5 weeks earlier. I ask for the item back. Pay Pal sends me an e-mail saying that they had received the shipping info and that I had received the item back and provided me the USPS tracking number. The number was from when I shipped the item to Dayton Ohio and when you use the number at USPS site it says left Hanoverton Ohio going to Dayton Ohio. I never received my item back and Pay Pal says I did and the matter is closed. I only have a 40 feed back so I dont understand how in the hell a person can become a power seller if Pay Pal acts like it is part of the current administration and takes from the sellers and gives to the dead beats. I mean if I could get my items back I would start marking them but since there is no way I can get items returned why bother. Any of you more expirenced sellers have any advice or is this a suck it up situation?

Sorry that happened to you. It happens to me frequently on mechanical & electronic items.

Paypal is owned by Ebay and Ebay does everything they can to keep buyer traffic coming into their sites even if it means letting the sellers get screwed over by scam buyers.

Yea, I have problems with that also. Scam buyers suck & there's nothing anybody can do about it.

Paypals buyer protection program means buyers can file claims 2 or 3 times a year and get their money refunded "No Matter What". There is no "Paypal Super Fund" to reimburst buyers. Paypals Buyer protection program removes the money from your Paypal or bankaccount directly. The big problem with the Paypal buyer protection program is buyers are limited to 2 or 3 claims a year but there are thousands of scam buyers and a seller can get hit constantly by scam buyers using one of their claims.

I already introduced a plan to another auction site and online payment site to combat this problem. The plan with cut a sellers throat because it involves "No Refund" and buyers will hesitate to make purchases but it will work out nicely for me with certain items.

SCAM BUYERS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WILL DO THEIR BEST TO NAIL SELLERS.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Not Happy,

Of course you have recourse. You file criminal charges against the buyer. But that means that you have to actually PROVE your case, rather than simply blasting away on some message board.

25 bad buyers for every bad seller?

If you truly believe that, then onine sales isn't for you.

Buyers win every time when filing Paypal complaints?

Not true. When I sold on ebay, I had one INR and SNAD complaint filed against me. I won both of them.

Maybe the answer is to not offer items on ebay, that lend themselves to fraud. Keep those items for non ebay selling.

And believe it or not, Paypal is excellent away from ebay. If a buyer files an SNAD complaint, they are told by Paypal, that those (SNADs) are for ebay only.

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

DaLizardsLair wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Not Happy,

Of course you have recourse. You file criminal charges against the buyer. But that means that you have to actually PROVE your case, rather than simply blasting away on some message board.

25 bad buyers for every bad seller?

If you truly believe that, then onine sales isn't for you.

Buyers win every time when filing Paypal complaints?

Not true. When I sold on ebay, I had one INR and SNAD complaint filed against me. I won both of them.

Maybe the answer is to not offer items on ebay, that lend themselves to fraud. Keep those items for non ebay selling.

And believe it or not, Paypal is excellent away from ebay. If a buyer files an SNAD complaint, they are told by Paypal, that those (SNADs) are for ebay only.

You said it yourself. Quote: "Of course you have recourse. You file criminal charges against the buyer. But that means that you have to actually PROVE your case, rather than simply blasting away on some message board."

It would cost more money and time to file crimminal complaints on little sales and everyone knows filing a crimminal case on a simple Ebay sale is pointless.

You may not have had any problems with scam buyers but I have talked to plenty of people who have and you coming onto this thread telling me I'm wrong just fuels the egos of scam buyers doing this.

Until you start running into these buyers you just don't have any ideal at all!

2BOYSandTOYS · Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 10095 Location: Kansas

Not Happy - I suspect that these scam buyers show themselves more with used items or vintage pieces than with NEW. I may be wrong, but it seems they go after a specific product area, with full intent of looking to benefit from the transaction.

I feel for you and must say that I'm grateful almost all of my transactions, as a buyer and a seller, have been awesome and above expectations.

Best to you as you look at ways to reduce the risk to your business!

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

2BOYSandTOYS wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Not Happy - I suspect that these scam buyers show themselves more with used items or vintage pieces than with NEW. I may be wrong, but it seems they go after a specific product area, with full intent of looking to benefit from the transaction.

I feel for you and must say that I'm grateful almost all of my transactions, as a buyer and a seller, have been awesome and above expectations.

Best to you as you look at ways to reduce the risk to your business!

That's exactly correct. They scam parts on vintage and electronic items or parts on new items that are expensive to replace.

On new items they already have the item they are buying but the item they have is damaged so they make the purchase from the seller, file a Paypal claim and return their damaged item and keep the undamaged item the seller sent them.

newmember · Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 245

Not Happy wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Paypals buyer protection program means buyers can make a purchase and take parts from the item the buyer ships out to them then file a Paypal claim to get a refund. The buyer always wins the claim and the seller gets the item back minus some parts the buyer wanted.

The protection program works both ways. :?

A seller could ship an item, minus a couple parks that they stated in their description. Then PayPal would require the buyer to ship the item back (at their expense) for a refund.

So the great deal you just won on an auction, bam! Not so great anymore. Nothing you can do about it.

This has happened to me several times as a buyer, not once as a seller. I bought about as much as I sold on Ebay.

Not Happy · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 7

newmember wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
Not Happy wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Paypals buyer protection program means buyers can make a purchase and take parts from the item the buyer ships out to them then file a Paypal claim to get a refund. The buyer always wins the claim and the seller gets the item back minus some parts the buyer wanted.

The protection program works both ways. :?

A seller could ship an item, minus a couple parks that they stated in their description. Then PayPal would require the buyer to ship the item back (at their expense) for a refund.

So the great deal you just won on an auction, bam! Not so great anymore. Nothing you can do about it.

This has happened to me several times as a buyer, not once as a seller. I bought about as much as I sold on Ebay.

This is very true about sellers shipping out faulty merchandise. Most sellers though want to build up a good reputation especially in the stores. Most of the bad seller stuff comes out of the auction venue from households just putting stuff up for sale to get rid of it.

The buyer also should hold some responsibility for making sure items they purchase are correct by asking questions and sending for more pictures. Most buyers don't.

Baysbeauty · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 273

I had learned this the hard way as well as a buyer. And the only protection that we now have when purchasing and paying through PayPal is to use our Credit Card that is on file with PayPal. This way you can do a charge back.

PayPal has new rules and regulations now and I ran into a situation where I didn't get what I ordered. As long as there is a DC or tracking showing that you received your item the buyer will loose most all the time now.

So what we need to do as buyers is when paying through PayPal, do not pay through existing funds in your account. There is a button to click on so that you can pay through your Credit Card on file.

I had spoke with PayPal and they suggested that I do it this way as well.

Hope this helps.