Power Sellers Unite

elgato · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 16923 Location: Texas

Amazon panned Google’s book settlement with the Author’s Guild saying that the deal “restrains competition” and “usurps the role of Congress in legislating solutions” as copyright and new technologies collide.

Amazon’s rebuttal, which can be downloaded here (PDF), is one of many arguments against the Google Book Settlement that have been filed over the last two days. Google was sued in 2005 by authors and publishers for infringing on copyrights as the search giant moved to digitize books. Google later settled with authors and publishers for $125 million and agreed to set up a registry to ensure copyright owners would be compensated.

Also see: A spirited defense of the Google Book Search settlement

Open Book Alliances opens up assault on Google’s book settlement

Meanwhile, the Open Book Alliance, which counts Amazon, Microsoft and Yahoo as members, and other groups have rallied against it. A hearing is scheduled for Oct. 7 to hear objections to the Google pact with authors and publishers.

In its filing, Amazon said it would show up to the Oct. 7 hearing to voice its objection. The e-tailer said:
more.. link to news article

kfellmysinkers · Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Posts: 61

I know Google Books has screwed me twice. I am selling a book on Ebay for 175 bucks and the people who wanted it said they read the first 70 pages of it online and said it "was not for them". Google Books should be shut down period.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Quote: › docWrite("quote")Google Books should be shut down period.

So when you need to gain access to a particultar book for a research paper, you'd rather fail the course, since you weren't able to fly halfway across the country to view the original?

YES, some books are that rare.

sciencefare · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:

kfellmysinkers wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Google Books should be shut down period.If Google Books should be shut down, what about libraries?

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

sciencefare wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")kfellmysinkers wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Google Books should be shut down period.If Google Books should be shut down, what about libraries?

Or the Library of Congress?

sciencefare · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject:

DaLizardsLair wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")sciencefare wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")kfellmysinkers wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Google Books should be shut down period.If Google Books should be shut down, what about libraries?

Or the Library of Congress?That's just it. If you censure Google Books, where then do you draw the line... and why?

missprintsvintage · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 904

Shades of Farenheit 451 and George Orwell.

Plus I find google books most helpful if I'm looking for information on a historical figure. I'm not talking Abraham Lincoln either.

mojavelyn · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject:

Archive.org which is microsoft... has public domain books and music for downloads.

What google did violated copyrights of authors and publishers. Those books aren't in public domain, therefore the rights holders are entitled to their royalties.

Authors only make so much per word and they must continously write... And they have to write a lot and often and they must sell books, so much per word, per new books sold. This is why you find authors writing under several names. Like Dana Fuller Ross of the Wagons West series and Donald Clayton Porter of the White Indian Series... Same person. I believe it was Gore Vidal (don't quote me on this, it may have been another famous author), who well into the electronics age was still writing on an old manual typewriter, said something to the effect of... "I make my living writing... if I can't write, I can't make a living, at least this way if my electicity is shut off, I can still write. "

Also, as for selling rare books, you will find that publishers will re-lease a book when demand and price of a rare book goes way up! I have an 1894 edition of a Jacob Bohme, when I first started looking at collector's prices on it, it was only worth $45... then within a year, it was over $200... A publisher reprinted it. The book is public domain, since Bohme lived in the 1500s... so anything the publisher makes is theirs. Famous All Over Town by Danny Santiago... debut novel.. only to find out Danny Santiago was Daniel St James, a blacklisted author... Prices soared! re-printed! The Last Romantic, Hannah Pakula ... 3rd printing was going for over $100 when I got the a 2nd printing in on a trade. Care to guess where its at now?

Oh Yeah, I still have my 1st ed Hemmingway too.

How do used book stores get by with selling books? because the initial royalty was was paid on the first purchase. There is no royalty on subsequent sales.

What google did was basically a "burned" copy.

sciencefare · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject:

mojavelyn wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")What google did violated copyrights of authors and publishers. Those books aren't in public domain, therefore the rights holders are entitled to their royalties.If Google violated the copyrights of the authors and publishers, so did (and does), every library in existence.

missprintsvintage · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 904

1. I am 4-square for copyright protection.

However: in defense of google books: just now(in between playing with SF and words) I googled Thomas Moran(artist, American, specifically his art c. 1860-70s ) The reference wasn't what I wanted but had I been after a book on Moran google showed me where to purchase it. And the text quoted, in this case, was definitely within the bounds of Fair Use.

sciencefare · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject:

missprintsvintage wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")the text quoted, in this case, was definitely within the bounds of Fair Use.The fair use doctrine is the thing that's escaping many folks.

And for the record, I'm all for copyrights as well.

But, situations have gone beyond absurd sometimes. :?

mojavelyn · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject:

sciencefare wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")mojavelyn wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")What google did violated copyrights of authors and publishers. Those books aren't in public domain, therefore the rights holders are entitled to their royalties.If Google violated the copyrights of the authors and publishers, so did (and does), every library in existence.

No, because libraries either purchase their books/movies/audio they loan, or they are donated by members... This is why Friends of the Libraries have sales, to be able to purchse more books and expand the library inventory. The libraries paid the initial royalities, they loan the books out for some time, collect overdue fees, then sell books when they have outlived their 'readability' or popularity dwindles, or the book goes out of print.

What google did was to make copies available to general public, WITHOUT paying the royality. This is why they had to pay $125 million.

When a book is published... its 1st ed either hc or pb... lets say hc for ease of tracing... popular writer, 1st run sells out pretty quickly. 2nd print run sells out pretty quickly. Possibly 3rd print run... then the book is picked up by pb publishers... usually a division within the same publishing house organization... And if its a REAL popular book... then it gets picked up the the Book of the Month Clubs or Book club editions... And these are also within the same publishing houses... Some books come out in pb first and only appear in hc editions as BCE's. Book club editions are lower quality paper and weight, hence cheaper. And after so long a print run, it then gets 'rented' off to a lower issue of pb publishers. Subsequent print runs on also on lower quality paper and book weight.

And of course, there are the hearing and vision impaired editions.

Usually the isbn will change slightly between the hc and pb editions regardless of print run.

For each print run, the author gets paid. And the popularity of a previous book also boosts his advances and per word payment for the next book.

And the boilerplate copyright in each book, each edition, says "No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher."

Now, I can make a selected copy of a single page for use in a quote or book review/report, and the proper credits given, particularly in non-fiction work.

I can sell used books, because its the complete book and the initial royalties have been paid. New and used book dealers and sellers have been around for centuries. In fact, Ben Franklin is the Father of the American Library System.