Power Sellers Unite

elgato · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 17236 Location: Texas

An alarming number of customers have fallen foul of fraud when using the online payment service.

“Safer. Simpler. Smarter.” That is the slogan of PayPal, the payment service used by 20 million people when buying and selling items online.

But customers who have fallen victim to fraud when using the service say that “dangerous, expensive and complicated” is a more appropriate description.

Times Money has received scores of letters from angry PayPal customers who have lost hundreds of pounds after selling items on eBay. Websites such as paypalsucks.com and paypalwarning.com detail similar “horror stories” from disgruntled customers.

Jack Gardner, 19, recently sold his Apple computer on eBay to raise £995 to pay for his university tuition fees. Mr Gardner received the money and posted the computer to the buyer. It was only then that he was told that the buyer had paid for it by hacking into someone else’s PayPal account.

more.. link to news article

j&gsales · Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 238

and in effect Jack is held responsible for paypals lack of security and/or some ones elses negligence in safe guarding their account. Jack, the only one with zero liability here will shoulder 100% of the burden while those who hold responsibility shoulder none.. correct?

Northern Nights · Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 145

It is sad that Paypal does not make sure a payment is good before they tell a seller to ship their item.

Guess that is why many refuse to use them as sellers.

I suppose if one has a problem with Paypal the best hope one has is to contact media, the BBB, etc. Appears you have a better chance of getting their attention that way than any other.

Uncle Mikes Rocket Shack · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 275

Its a disgrace

missprintsvintage · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 914

No, PP is not a disgrace. It does come with problems. Sorta like a bank with high granite or limestone walls but with the smallest of ''Alice In Wonderland on mushrooms'' front doors.

After 2000 transactions with PP I rarely hit a problem. Currently, yes: a HUGE one if they side with the phoney buyer. That result awaits.

On the whole:
As a buyer: slick as grease. Not all my buying online buying are eb*y purchases.

As a seller, 99.4% of the time they are perfect. Why? Because as seller I create no problems they must deal with. The .06% is the present headache which will resolve with my PD's help(if necessary). I've been to the PP seller's headache ''party'' before. I won then; I'll win again. The pain of all of it is my time which is wasted proving the obvious.

As the Net grows and as businesses remove themselves father from direct contact (i.e., they export labor offshore, in some imagined savings move) they put the seller who pays their commissions to work. I resent that deeply.

Luckily, for me, the two instances presented over a 3 year time frame. Unluckily for PP: I keep records and the accounts are linked.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4780

So did Jack make even rudimentary efforts to protect himself?

Like insuring the package? Shipping it via a method that offered online tracking with Signature Confirmation, to find out who actually received the package, so they could go after them legally?

Or did they simply ship it, and now blame Paypal?

Intelligent minds want to know.

Northern Nights · Joined: 18 Oct 2008 Posts: 145

It really does not matter what Jack did if he had a dishonest buyer that paid using Paypal.

All a buyer has to do is complain to PP and they would get their money back either through PP themselves or by doing a charge back through their credit card if they used one.

Heck PP does not even make sure a seller gets their item returned to them before they will issue a refund. Just having to prove to PP that something was returned is an insult to intelligent sellers and a well known way to get something for nothing by those that are dishonest buyers.

Perhaps intelligent minds should want to know why PP tells a seller to ship items before they know if the payment for the item is good, don't make sure a seller gets the item they sent out back before refunding, and appear to need outside intervention to help sellers out that have or are being scammed.

Sure there are some things that can make it less likely that you are scammed but if you accept PP it can happen to the most careful of sellers.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4780

And by insuring the item through a third party insurer, one can at least be compensated for their loss.

seewhatimsellingnow · Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 1253 Location: Ohio

Paypal does no real investigating- It's a waste of time to fax them proof and written facta. They don't really care. ANYONE can say their item was not as described- ANYONE can return a package- with parts missing, or worse- rocks in the box ! Does Paypal care? No- all they want to see is that tracking number PROVING that the buyer returned the item (even though they didn't) and then, Paypal will take the money out of your account and refund the buyer!! Where's the seller protection?

I think now- that everyone should NOT be so quick to ship (as Ebay impresses on everyone) We are SO encouraged to ship quickly- and even our dsr scores will drop if we don't, putting our items in lower visibility. As soon as a buyer pays- Paypal says "SHIP NOW!".... I do think we should WAIT- as long as it takes- for payment to clear and be verified by Paypal... Paypal is just getting too risky. And we can't sell on Ebay if we don't have a Paypal account !! Ebay really has it all wrapped up in one little package, to screw the seller......Betty Lou

Uncle Mikes Rocket Shack · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 275

missprintsvintage wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")No, PP is not a disgrace. It does come with problems. Sorta like a bank with high granite or limestone walls but with the smallest of ''Alice In Wonderland on mushrooms'' front doors.

After 2000 transactions with PP I rarely hit a problem. Currently, yes: a HUGE one if they side with the phoney buyer. That result awaits.

On the whole:
As a buyer: slick as grease. Not all my buying online buying are eb*y purchases.

As a seller, 99.4% of the time they are perfect. Why? Because as seller I create no problems they must deal with. The .06% is the present headache which will resolve with my PD's help(if necessary). I've been to the PP seller's headache ''party'' before. I won then; I'll win again. The pain of all of it is my time which is wasted proving the obvious.

As the Net grows and as businesses remove themselves father from direct contact (i.e., they export labor offshore, in some imagined savings move) they put the seller who pays their commissions to work. I resent that deeply.

Luckily, for me, the two instances presented over a 3 year time frame. Unluckily for PP: I keep records and the accounts are linked.

Im sorry after 13,000 + transactions on Paypal its still a disgrace most people use paypal because is a neccesary evil, not because there good hearted people. Remember who owns them................

Baconsdozen · Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 771

It is no suprise with Ebay owning paypal (or is it viceversa) there is a reluctance to investigate or take complaints seriously.
As has been said before both institutions care nothing about the customer,only their own profits.

Uncle Mikes Rocket Shack · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 275

Baconsdozen wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")It is no suprise with Ebay owning paypal (or is it viceversa) there is a reluctance to investigate or take complaints seriously.
As has been said before both institutions care nothing about the customer,only their own profits.

Touche' from across the pond

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4780

Quote: › docWrite("quote") ANYONE can say their item was not as described

Not true.

Only eBay buyers can. Outside of eBay, the SNAD complaint doesn't exist.

Uncle Mikes Rocket Shack · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 275

DaLizardsLair wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Quote: › docWrite("quote") ANYONE can say their item was not as described

Not true.

Only eBay buyers can. Outside of eBay, the SNAD complaint doesn't exist.

That is 100% correct

jjj525 · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 354

After 100s of transactions outside ebay & with ebay I never found paypal to be bad eventhough I dislike feebay.

If you follow their seller protection policy 99% of time you are safe.

SNAD also don't apply to off-ebay transactions.

It is better than Google checkout - which has no human contact if there is a problem.Also you need multiple accounts to sell on multiple sites.

Amazon checkout are notorious with their A-Z scams.If you don't have signature confirmation even for item under $10 you will loose the claim.

Compared to that paypal is great but like any other banks it may also have problems.

Most of the sellers mentioned in the article send their item some even close to $1000 with no tracking & hence they lost their claim.

One guy send the item to Ukraine even though paypal give them a address of buyer in France.

No site can help if the sellers are dumb, don't read the policy or some even don't know how to sell online.

I had a merchant acoount - what a nightmare.

- Account set up fee, Monthly Acess fee
- Credit check
- Reserve amount
- High transactions fees
- Charge back fee ( > $25 each time)

Compared to that paypal & other online checkout systems are great beyond any means.

Amazon checkout also don't want buyers to return the item.Even their terms state that.

Link

My buyer won't return the item they filed a claim for -- what do I do?

Buyers are expected to work with you to make return arrangements for merchandise before filing a claim. If the buyer has received an item that is materially different and have not received a response from you with return instructions, he or she may file a Guarantee claim for the purchase. Once a customer is reimbursed for an order via the A-to-z Guarantee, Amazon.com does not obligate that customer to return the item they received. However, you are welcome to contact your customer directly to arrange for a return of the item.