Power Sellers Unite

elgato · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 16923 Location: Texas

PayPal recently notified customers of policy changes in its Terms of Service (TOS). Beginning October 14, 2009 the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy is being amended in Section 3 (c) to add the purchase of real property as a prohibited activity. According to the announcement:

We are expanding this section to allow us to place a temporary hold on amounts subject to a claim filed by an eBay user, through the eBay resolution process, if your PayPal account is your eBay reimbursement method. The new language will read: 1. "10.2 Temporary Holds for Disputed Transactions. If a buyer files a Claim, Chargeback or Reversal on a payment you received, PayPal will place a temporary hold on the funds in your Account to cover the amount of the liability. If you win the dispute or the transaction is eligible for PayPal seller protection, PayPal will lift the temporary hold. If you lose the dispute, PayPal will remove the funds from your Account. This process also applies to claims that a buyer files directly with eBay through the eBay resolution process if your PayPal Account is your reimbursement method for buyer claims."

The company also amended the PayPal Student Account Agreement, also effective October 14, 2009, to allow the child to add a bank account to his or her PayPal Student Account. "The parent may set Permissions to allow or prevent the Child from linking a bank account to the Student Account and from adding funds from the linked bank account to the Student Account Balance."

The Electronic Frontier Foundation tracks changes to corporate user agreements, the full list of PayPal changes to its Terms of Service can be viewed on this page.

more.. link to news article

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

The site that auctionbytes linked for this article - TOSback.org - looks to be a very useful site to know about. However, some points I find notable on reading the article and the lastest TOS changes recorded by TOSBack.org.

1. TOSBack.org only track the PPUA; they do not track PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy nor the Student Account Agreement mentioned in the article. (They also don't track any other policy or agreement of Paypal's that is referenced by the PayPal User Agreement, such as the Card Processing Policy which I found a reference to within the PPUA also).

2. TOSBack's last two versions of the PPUA were collected Sept 2 (in which PayPal state "We last modified this Agreement on August 19, 2009.") and Sept 22 (in which PayPal state, "We last modified this Agreement on August 19, 2009.) I conclude that PayPal's statements within their UA as to when it was last modified cannot be relied upon - the two versions are different, so clearly some modifications occurred between 2 Sept and 22 Sept, despite the unchanged 19 Aug change date from PayPal.

3. As I saw no reference to an effective date, Auctionbytes must be looking elsewhere than the linked reference site for their information - perhaps the Updates page Paypal mentions in the policy.

4. Therefore - the article needs some adjustment to link more relevant references and to address the changes mentioned rather than quoting a section that looks basically unchanged to me.

5. In case you didn't know, the PPUA allows a seller to Opt Out of paying eBay dissatisfied-buyer chargebacks/claims out of your PayPal account - there is a phone number to call to Opt Out.

NewSkies · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 272

purple_reading_giraffe wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
5. In case you didn't know, the PPUA allows a seller to Opt Out of paying eBay dissatisfied-buyer chargebacks/claims out of your PayPal account - there is a phone number to call to Opt Out.

Now this is beyond interesting!

If they do not come out of the Paypal account, then where are they deducted from (maybe from your on file credit card or bank?)?

Does you anyone any other input or experience concerning this opt-out?

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

From this page: http://www.tosback.org/policy.php?pid=46

I chose to view changes of the latest Agreement version posted. When you do that, both the prior and the current version are visible side-by-side and deleted items are highlighted in blue on the left (older) side, additions are highlighted in yellow on the right (newer) side. I found the following by happenstance, because PP changed the phone number:

under "1. 10. Your Liability - Actions We May Take." about 2 paragraphs down:

"Opt-Out. If you do not want to allow PayPal to reimburse eBay for your liability, you may opt-out by calling eBay at 1-866-643-0898. Your opt-out will be effective within 3 Business Days. If you opt-out then eBay will not use your PayPal Account to recover amounts that you owe due to an eBay claim that you lost. This opt-out will not affect other amounts that you pay to eBay using your PayPal Account (such as your eBay fees)."

Note that this does NOT include claims that PayPal decides against you through the PayPal resolution process (covered in a paragraph shortly before this one).

The way I read that, and something I read somewhere else in my scanning, leads me to believe that you must provide eBay a method for collecting claims from you, I would search the eBay user agreement for the specific language. (using Control-F makes it easier to find something specific - I would probably try searching the word resolution or reimburse or claim).

NewSkies · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 272

purple_reading_giraffe wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
From this page: http://www.tosback.org/policy.php?pid=46

The way I read that, and something I read somewhere else in my scanning, leads me to believe that you must provide eBay a method for collecting claims from you, I would search the eBay user agreement for the specific language. (using Control-F makes it easier to find something specific - I would probably try searching the word resolution or reimburse or claim).

Thanks for expanding on this, Purple Reading!

Guess will leave it alone in lieu of opt-out as with PP already having a credit card and bank acct on file, don't need the other to have that also as I feel that is a doubt hit to deal with.

Very interesting though.

fruity · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 375

Elgato and All,

Did anyone get this message in email and if you did can you give me an timeframe of when..

I didn't

elgato · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 16923 Location: Texas

fruity wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Elgato and All,

Did anyone get this message in email and if you did can you give me an timeframe of when..

I didn't

AB posted the original article on Oct 6,2009.
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y09/m10/i06/s02

fatseal · Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Posts: 555

Humor me here, does that mean you can't use Payapl to pay for a house you buy on ebay, or you can't pay for your house with payapl at Ebby Halliday. Assuming you had enough money in your paypal account to pay for the house. Or even the down payment.

But I know they sell "real"property on the bay, so how do you pay for it? Bank draft, wire transfer, goats?