Power Sellers Unite

tallship

I think it was DaLizard's Lair that was talking about being able to block unverified paypal buyers in a recent thread, by doing a BIN, but I'm not sure. The thread started off as one thing, but ended up at some point being about echecks and unverified buyers that somehow winds up with the seller not getting paid.

Well, I just noticed that an item that I sold on ebay had a little hour glass where the dollar sign should be, and it said that paypal was processing the payment. So I went to paypal, and there was a red flag saying that it was an echeck, and paypal recommends I wait until 16 Oct before I ship.

The buyer is verified, however, yet in the transaction details it says I'm not eligible for seller protection for this item. I guess because it's an echeck?

Okay, there were several bidders on this item, and I don't want to wait if I don't need to because someone used a paypal feature that I have no seller protection with.

Can I just do a refund and then do a second chance offer to the next highest bidder? And if I do, can the buyer that I refunded still leave feedback for me? I'm concerned he might be upset that I refunded him.

And regardless, what kind of feedback would he leave me anyway on my DSRs for the shipping time?

And finally, is there anyway to block echecks if this is going to happen every time someone uses that method?

I thought that if you're verified, and you have a bank account, that was your funding source and paypal would just move the money. I'm guessing that the buyer ( with a feedback of 38 ) might welsh on the payment somehow, even though paypal says only the *recipient* can cancel an echeck.

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

Brad - just one little person's opinion, but... I would be very annoyed if I won an auction and paid with a method the seller accepted and then the seller took my win away from me without at least discussing it with me first. It's possible an echeck is the only way this buyer can pay as money orders and checks are no longer accepted. I'm not sure how echecks work, but I'm guessing the buyer has not chosen to directly link a bank account yet? Re the worry about dinging your shipping time, I suggest keeping an eye on when that payment clears, sending now an email that states you'll be shipping when the echeck clears (Paypal takes time to process it, just like real checks take time to clear); try to ship as soon as it does and send another ship notice email - maybe with a note about the stars mattering.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Brad,

Actually, it was stockmiser who made the comment about blocking echecks on eBay, by requiring immediate payment on your BIN items.

Outside of eBay, you can block them altogether.

In this case, all you need to do is wait a few days to see if the echeck clears into YOUR Paypal account. The vast majority of the time, they do, usually within 3-4 days (Canadian echecks average 10 days to clear into your PP account). Then you would ship the item as you normally would.

I'd just email the buyer to let them know that you acknowledge the echeck and that once it clears into your account, you will let them know. Most buyers like being kept in the loop.

Can you refund the payment?

Of course you can. You're the seller. Nobody can force you to follow through on a sale.

BUT the buyer will most definitely be able to leave you with feedback...most likely RED. And they can leave anything they want as far as the DSRs go. Plus, if they so desired, they could file a Non Performing Seller complaint against you as well.

Can you block echecks?

Yes, by requiring IMMEDIATE payment for BIN items.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Quote: › docWrite("quote")It's possible an echeck is the only way this buyer can pay as money orders and checks are no longer accepted.

Actually, any payment method that the buyer suggests is considered valid, if the seller agrees to it. The sellers simply can't be the one to mention it.

The buyer is using an echeck, because while they have some money in their PP account, it's not enough to simply do a balance transfer. In those situations, PP only allows an echeck.

If their PP account were empty, then they could pay directly from their bank account or with a credit card.

The fact that the buyer is "Verified" means that they do have their PP account tied to a bank account.

elgato · Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 16923 Location: Texas

Over the years I've accepted several of these PP online checkds and despite it taking a few days to clear, I've never had any problems. It's the personal written checks I fear in today's economy!

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

DaLiz - You're right - I glossed over the buyer-suggested method exception; mostly because very, very few buyers are going to suggest this out-of-hand when not listed in an item.

I'm confused about e-checks and verified PayPal users.

Are you saying that:

1. If a buyer is verified, there has to be a linked bank account, as that is the only way a verified address can occur.

2. If a buyer has some funds in their PayPal account, but not enough funds to fully cover a transaction, PayPal defaults to an e-check rather than a bank balance transfer to cover the transaction.

3. If a buyer has no funds in their PayPal account, PayPal defaults to direct bank transfer OR CC payment and not e-check.

Looks like I need to do some reading at the PayPal site if I want to actually understand how e-checks work, as I don't think I have ever sent one to anybody.

missprintsvintage · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 904

Stockmiser wrote had written this handy hint:

Mark your listings IMMEDIATE PAYMENT when accepting Paypal and by definition echecks are eliminated.

Deserves its own post.
Thanks! to Stockmiser.

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

Ok, reading on the PayPal site, I have so far a few answers:

An account can be verified by linking a credit or debit card that has a verification code. Prepaid and gift cards can no longer be used with Paypal because of Paypal's 'security features'. They don't mention using a bank account to verify a PayPal account, which is the method I used back when, though they still allow one to link a bank account. I remember them asking me to add a credit card a couple years ago after having used them for a couple years. A couple blurbs lead me to believe that they do not always make 'small refundable charges' to ones CC to verify it - it is mentioned as a 'might happen'.

Confirmed addresses - verified by PayPal or they match the billing address for the CC used. Ones confirmed address can become unconfirmed, and one can have two identical PP addresses, one of which shows as 'unconfirmed' and linked to eBay - read here: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=p/pop/confirmed_address_checkout-outside

Seems that if you are now verified by linking a bank account or by obtaining PP credit, you must confirm your address via US mail. https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps=&solutionId=10153&locale=en_US&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=US&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9010

When you look at 'how will my payment be funded' the list of options appears to be in PP's preferred order - PP balance; PP Credit Products; linked bank account; echeck; linked CC - all in decreasing amounts that PP will net off the transaction. Then PP is 'pushing' echecks as an option, as 'you will not incur CC charges'. https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps=&solutionId=10371&locale=en_US&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=US&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9010

So I can see a PP user who has verified via linked CC choosing eCheck on PP's advice at checkout.

tallship - re refunding: here: https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps=&solutionId=11442&locale=en_US&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=US&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9010 PP says:
"Question :
"Can I refund an eCheck payment that has not cleared?
"Answer :
"Yes. If the status of a payment is uncleared when you initiate the refund, PayPal cancels the payment and does not withdraw the funds from your bank account." - you gotta wonder about the "your bank account" part, though. :lol:

xppman · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 1145

Quote: › docWrite("quote")Over the years I've accepted several of these PP online checkds and despite it taking a few days to clear, I've never had any problems. It's the personal written checks I fear in today's economy!

eChecks are fine via PP.
When it clears, send the item.
Personal 'written checks' are fine as well.
Just give them time to be validated
BEFORE sending your widget to the customer.
(10 days usually covers this)...

missprintsvintage · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 904

Personal checks have on important drawback: when the seller deposits the check they must endorse it to their bank account. If a business then like that is a non-issue.

If the seller is a private individual, that bank account endorsement does matter. When the buyer asks for a copy of their own check there is your account number.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Quote: › docWrite("quote")Personal 'written checks' are fine as well.
Just give them time to be validated
BEFORE sending your widget to the customer.
(10 days usually covers this)...

Funny that 10 days is enough for you, when my bank states that 30 days is the MINIMUM I should wait.

Many sellers have gotten burned by shipping items after 10 days, only to find out afterwards that the check is no good. So then, they are out the item, the payment and added bank fees for the bad check.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

PRG,

The way that I understand Paypal is as follows:

A Verified account is one that has tied their PP account to a bank account.

A Confirmed account is one that has tied their PP account to a credit/debit card.

A Verified address is NOT the same thing as a Confirmed address (which is a requirement for SPP protection outside of eBay).

If a buyer has sufficient funds in the PP account, the preferred method of payment is a balance transfer.

If the buyer has some funds in their PP account, but not enough to cover the purchase, the default payment method is an echeck. I'm not sure if they even allow the buyer any other option.

If the buyer has no money in their PP account, then the preferred methods are (in this order)

Bank Account
echeck
Debit Card
Credit Card

The reason is that PP doesn't care to pay CC fees any more than the rest of us do. But the buyer gets to decide which to use.

For protection sake, always choose the credit or debit card. That way, you gain an extra level of protection should something go wrong.

purple_reading_giraffe · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5485 Location: Indiana, USA

I can tell you from personal experience, as I once (within the past year) did have some funds in my PP account from a refund, but not enough to cover the payment for a purchase, that echeck is not the default for the remaining balance when one has a linked bank account - PP chose my linked bank account for the remainder.

I strongly suspect that echeck would only be presented as an option to those that do not have a linked bank account.

I linked above all the help info I could find on the PayPal site regarding verified and confirmed, etc.