Power Sellers Unite

armourereric · Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 116

First of all, I do have some culpability here:

I was contacted via ebay in early January and asked if the buyer from Italy were to make a BIN offer for 2 of my items going to Italy, would I mark the parcel custom form "commercial sample" so that since he was a retailer of armour, he could not have any customs. I agreed and sent the parcel, it arrived, he was happy with the product BUT, because even though I marked it commercial sample, I put a value on the items, plus I accidentally marked the each $5 higher than he paid (I forgot it was a "best offer" and marked them for the BIN price I was asking) Now he claims that since my listing does not indicate that he had to pay a VAT and customs that he wanted either 25 euro's (whatever that calculates out to ) or he would leave me negative feedback, first I ship about 40parcels a year to the EU, including Italy, he is the first to even notify me of the problem, second I did file a complaint with ebay. And though they want to investigate, it will take alot of time on my part. My question is: How long does this guy even have to file feedback, it's been 6 weeks since the sale and he got it like 3 weeks ago. ( I did ship within 48 hours via priority) What other stuff should I do?

Also, as an aside, I posted this episonde on the message board of a locla political conservative group I belong to, all day Saturday, I was getting emails from Poizner and Gerry Brown's people wanting all the details (they are the two candidates against Meg for CA gov), they both wanted to interview me over the phone on just how well Meg really did creating jobs via ebay.

GreyJaguar · Joined: 12 Jul 2008 Posts: 309

This is just my personal opinion and is based on the way things work on Ebay at this time. And, I do not know what your profit margin was on this particular sale.

When it comes to Ebay, if a buyer has any problems, I simply try to refund whatever needs to be refunded. It is not worth the time nor the risk to have your feedback rating affected even if this means a financial loss for that one particular transaction.

I admire that you want to stand up to the principle of the situation. Those principles are important in making positive changes in society. But Ebay does not necessarily operate using those same principles and that's the problem.

Whatever you decide, good luck to you.

Stockmiser · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 1146

First of all, these were not "commercial samples", so although the customer asked you to commit mail fraud - it's also a crime in italy to willfully avoid VAT taxes. You are a US seller, and it's not your responsibility to know about every country's tarriffs, taxes, fees, duties or fines that they might charge a buyer for accepting goods from other countries. As an Italian citizen, those VAT taxes were 100% the buyer's responsibility - both to pay for AND to know about.

So it was wrong for the buyer to ask you to commit a crime, but you did it anyway. Now that the buyer was caught for their deception, they want you to pay for it. 25 Euros is about $34.

The most I would give him is whatever the VAT and duties are for the extra $10 on your invoice. Probably no more than $1.

Remember - after 3/30, non-US DSR's do not count at all in your Seller performance evaluations for US sales. So I'd take the hit, block the user, and file a "feedback extortion" complaint with ebay.

PatchDog · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 3726

I agree with stockmiser in this case....he asked you to skirt the laws and you did it....and your reward is a negative feedback....that is the worst that can happen to you...as long as your other feedback is ok you will recover...now your partner in crime needs a lesson in honor among theives...if I were you...I would start googling for Italian Customs websites and also his local post office websites....in detail I would list everything that transpired with this transaction especially his efforts to get you to skirt the VAT....email him your confession and the Italian Authorities whom you intend to send this information to.....it's dirty pool but on the other hand, turnabout is fair play....you only get a negative...he will have serious legal trouble...

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

The buyer has 60 days after purchase to leave feedback and DSRs. Since that will be before the new policies go into effect, it will stay on your profile, and it will count against you.

As to what you should do.

For one thing, you should have a statement in every item you have for sale, to the effect of:

It is the BUYER'S responsibility to pay any taxes or customs duties on this item. Do not ask me to reduce the declared amount or otherwise mark the custom declaration in an untruthful way, as I will not do so.

That would at least let the buyer know what to expect. There are many sellers who will reduce the declared amount, to try and help the buyer out.

In your case, you declared the items to be "Samples". By doing so, you have committed a felony and could be fined or even jailed, but the chances of that happening are about equal to there being a buffalo stampede through your underwear in the next few minutes.

But by declaring the amount to be higher than what the buyer actually paid, you may have exceeded the duty free amount, thereby forcing the buyer to pay fees they might not have had to pay if you'd marked it correctly.

In this case, the only thing the buyer can do to you is give you negative feedback and low DSRs. The buyer only has 45 days from the date of payment to file any complaints with eBay/Paypal, so you might luck out there.

I would send the buyer $10 and chalk it up to the cost of a lesson learned. As for your complaint of feedback extortion, good luck with that one.

knappschiles · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: Wi

I have a question for all you customs form experts here.

What was he supposed to check off on the front of the form if not "commercial sample" ???????????

I ask because while I don't have much foreign sales, that "commercial sample" box is what I always check too. Usually I will sharpie out the "sample" part and none of the clerks at my Post Office have ever said I should do something else. Yes, they know I have a business.

Personally I don't like the form at all as it's hard to put in some of the long European addresses and the instructions for that check box are odd at best. See the pic and the circled sentance and tell me that "commercial sample" isn't what I shoud check off.

Carol

Stockmiser · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 1146

Where does it say "commercial sample" on that doc?

As I understand it, a commercial "sample" is supposed to mean a usually free item sent out to a retailer as a sample before they put in an actual order. It's a lot like a "gift", and should not be taxed.

Everything else is just an ordinary commercial transaction - some merchandise purchased and exported.

The last form I saw had a box for "merchandise", which is what you should probably use.

Here is one form for USPS I found...
http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps2976a.pdf

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

I always marked "Other", which is what I was instructed to do, by my local post office.

It's not a gift or document, and it certainly isn't a "sample".

I agree with trying to get the address into the area provided.

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Stockmiser wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")Where does it say "commercial sample" on that doc?

On the front of the small green customs form. You have the choice of...

Gift, Document, Commercial Sample or Other.

Carol's picture was showing the back of the form.

Stockmiser · Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 1146

Right, the short form is different. I believe you are correct about the "other" category for that form. They're only looking for the exceptions - everything else is taxed.

knappschiles · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: Wi

Yes, here is the front of the form that I always use.

I believe you don't need the long form if it's under a certain dollar amount or a certain size package but I'm not sure about that. But I have never sent anything large. And the 1 customer that bought wholesale would always keep his orders under $100 so it wouldn't triger customs.

So you guys think "other" would be better than the "sample".

That instruction sentance makes it seem like it should be "commercial" but than the check box doesn't exactly conform to the instructions. Leave it to our govt to make something ambiguous enough that we are likely to make a mistake. And then they will blame US for doing it wrong.

Carol

DaLizardsLair · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 4782

Carol,

What you are selling is commercial, but it's not a sample.

In our case, mark "Other" and give description in the space provided. In my case, it was usually just "Compact Disc(s)".

wphamilton · Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 1940 Location: Georgia

armourereric wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")... Poizner and Gerry Brown's people wanting all the details (they are the two candidates against Meg for CA gov), they both wanted to interview me over the phone on just how well Meg really did creating jobs via ebay.

They should come here and ask ... and also someone should probably clue them in on how many people actually made a living on eBay as opposed to that outrageous claim we heard so often during the last Presidential campaign.