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More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"
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myddf



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 81

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"  

Hi everyone...i started a thread a week or so ago regarding google base

As i was discussing, I sell sheet music and have been trying out lots of different venues to see which one would work well for me

Being someone that has never been one for reading "fine print" ...it was brought to my attention that duplicates can get you in trouble with google base

Anyhow, in a frantic fury of panic, i deleted all of my listings on blujay, bonanzle and ecrater (although the ecrater feed still seems to be posting my old inventory...if you click on it, it comes up item not found...someone told me that it can take up to a month some times for old listings to disappear)

Most people on PSU seemed to think Ecrater would be the best format for me

As I mentioned before, i am working on my own site that offers direct downloads of my products

If i use Ecrater, i can't offer direct downloads and i had been emailing the product upon paypal payment (i had a little clause in there to allow 24 hours for delivery)

So my question is....can i have the same items in an Ecrater store? or would that be breaking the google duplicate rules...although it would be the same stuff ....my own website offers direct downloads while ecrater wouldn't...would that be Kosher?

i want to make sure I am in compliance with the rules of google

Would google consider this duplicating? products are the same but the "service" is different

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Laura
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Digmen1



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 1151

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject:  

Don't worry !

I have only just started looking at my Google Product Search listings and there are heaps of opposition duplicate listings !

But I have to check as to weather they are on the same website or different one.

But I have seen one American Route 66 print about 10 times !
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Stockmiser



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 1421

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"  

The "duplication" issue appears to be a misunderstanding of some of google's policies.

Check out this Google webmaster site:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/09/demystifying-duplicate-content-penalty.html

What Google is referring to are those sites that just steal content from other sites - or by just submitting the SAME site using different domain names (that point to the same site).

This does not - and never ever has - pertained to having your items listed on multiple different websites.

I've had the same exact items listed on as many as 4 sites simultaneously and all 4 have always been indexed on google main - and google shopping - for years and years.

Most popular products are duplicated on google from all the venues they appear at - comparision shopping is the whole point of indexing them in multiple locations.

Currently there is an issue with Google no longer spidering Ebay - but they are still including ebay in their shopping section. This is just a google-ebay thing and has nothing to do with any general policies.
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mojavelyn



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5977
Location: Mojave Desert CA 120 miles from civilization

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject:  

Stockmiser, thank you for posting that. I, too, am at just as much at fault as anyone else for propagating the "rumor." and with Google saying

Duplicate and borrowed content

We do not permit duplicate products in the same account or between multiple accounts. If products are available on multiple sites under the same ownership, one site must be chosen to exclusively submit those products. For example, if you own two websites that sell the same product, you may not submit that product for both sites, regardless of pricing or promotional differences. If you have one product (such as a memory card) that is compatible with multiple systems (such as different cameras), we require that you list that product only once - supported models can be listed using the compatible_with attribute.


So thank you for clarifying this is different from 'marketplaces' or multi-seller platforms and not the 15 million websites that all point to one domain.

This is what I know from experience in Duplicate content...

Naming all your items the same without distinction in color or size... Instead of getting a listing for the 50 items you listed, you will only get one.

example: a seller lists 50 items of Ladies Gemstone Belt Buckle (this is an actual example from several years ago, before all the hoopla) she listed on ebay, and several smaller sites.... There was no distinction of color or type of gemstone listed in the title. And the buyer had to look at the picture to see any differences. The description was exactly the same also, without distinction. The distinctive qualities would have made excellent keywords also.

Instead of getting the 3000 listings in Google that she should have gotten, she only got one for each site she was on. And she absolutely refused to alter her methods.

What would have been the difference in her exposure on Google in organic and shopping if she had changed the title and description to include color and gemstone type?

Google has always disallowed repetitive content of this type.


added... if that doesn't quite make sense, please reverse it so it does... caffiene and nicotine levels are not at proper functioning levels.
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Stockmiser



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 1421

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"  

I've told people here on PSU about the same thing - inaccurately 8)

That's a good point you make in your example too - yet another form of disallowed duplication.

I suppose that, in theory based on the letter of the rules, you could argue that if I list the same exact item on 10 different sites, that since I am the same retailer, they should only allow one. But in practice, they really mean it's duplication if you OWN all 10 sites - like having 10 of the same webstore under different domain names. A common form of "google cheating" has always been to create a series of interlinked sites all sharing the same content.

But if you really think about it, even if you list the same exact item, at the same exact price, on Ebay and Etsy and my webstore - it's not really the "same" since the sites have very different policies and an entirely different buyer experience. for that matter, some buyers might not be able to even use one or more of the sites. So it's still a form of comparison shopping 8)
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mojavelyn



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5977
Location: Mojave Desert CA 120 miles from civilization

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject:  

And the real difference in sellers listing at multi-seller platforms such as auction sites or marketplaces.. is they don't own the site.

That was a true case. When I was CS on another site, this seller listed several items on that site, ebay and several others... all with the same name and description. I even showed her in a google search using the exact title of her her items how she was limiting her exposure... She only had 1 entry at each site she was on. And how if she would add in the stone color, just the color, she could improve her exposure on google ... Refused to do it.

As for dropship sellers ... I want to point out...
If 10 different dropship sellers are selling the exact same thing, at the same marketplaces (multi-seller platforms) for the exact same price, the exact same shipping, with the exact same descriptions ... why would a buyer chose one site or one seller over another to buy from? What can these sellers do to make their items stand out to attract a buyer to them?
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hotnana



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 863

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"  

Okay you guys have me totally confused now! (easy to do) :shock:

Some of it makes sense and some doesn't. I've seen even here, where sellers items aren't accepted by Google for EC because they once had a Google Merchant account tied to their store name from back when Bonz had sellers set up individual Google accts for submitting items. Changing up titles a bit, different store names and such is that enough to keep your items listed well in Google for several venues? There are mods for EC that swear up and down that Google knows more about you than you can imagine! I think it's splitting hairs, and Google changes their mind daily. Their policies are often as clear as muddy water!
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mojavelyn



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5977
Location: Mojave Desert CA 120 miles from civilization

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject:  

Bonz wasn't the first site to do that... where sellers set up googlebase account ... doing double listings via feed and sellers accounts. We did it at AuctionQuests long before BZ came on the scene.

Last year, Google changed the rules and the playing field.

And this appears to be the cause of confusion... not just to sellers but to marketplaces as well.

Along with possibly changing the description as much as 30%.

And yes, I have sent nasty little notes to Google's Help when they ask if thier help helped me. And I answer "NO, BE SPECIFIC... BE VERY SPECIFIC!"
I ask a specific question and I need a specific answer.

The sellers who had merchant accounts who were submitting their own items at marketplaces can no longer do that.
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hotnana



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 863

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: More advice needed on froogle and "duplicating"  

So Mo what is your theory as a site owner? Duplicate content on different venues is okay as long as you don't own the site? Do you honestly feel like it's simply a matter of whether Google figures out it's the same seller listing the same items on multiple venues? Luck of the Draw?

I'm confuzzled...I know sellers who's feeds to eCrater have been tossed out because they had the same items listed on Blujay. Yet I know a seller who has the same exact items listed on BJ, EC, Bonz and on two of his own websites! Google makes my head spin! :(
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mojavelyn



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5977
Location: Mojave Desert CA 120 miles from civilization

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject:  

I have several sellers who are on different sites and their items are getting posted in google shopping on the sites they are listing on.
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