Power Sellers Unite

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

Tell me if you think Im right or wrong. I have been selling electronic cigarettes since Jan. 2010, and have taken payments on them, as well as paying my suppliers for them. I got this e-mail today:

Dear David Wright,

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,
reserves the right to limit an account for any violation of the User
Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use
Policy, you may not use PayPal for the sale of certain products that
present a risk to consumer safety. To identify products that jeopardize
consumer safety, PayPal reviews laws, regulations and other government
actions, other available evidence, and marketing content related to the
product. The sale of e-cigarettes from your jurisdiction is covered by
this policy.

The complete Acceptable Use Policy can be found at the following URL:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua
/AcceptableUse_full&locale.x=en_US

To learn more about the Acceptable Use Policy, please refer to our Help
Center page here:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=_help

We are hereby notifying you that it has been determined that you are in
violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy regarding your sale of
ecigarettes and accessories on
http://www.blujay.com/?page=profile&profile_username=ecigarettes.
Therefore, your account has been permanently limited.

Please refer to transaction #:
0P029797P51714333

You will need to remove all references to PayPal from your website(s)
and/or auction(s). This includes not only removing PayPal as a payment
option, but also the PayPal logo and/or shopping cart. We thank you in
advance for your cooperation. If you have any questions, please contact
the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

So I checked PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, and there are no limitations on this item. They do list tobacco products. So I called them up, and they couldn't give me an answer. This item is an electronic device, with no byproducts of tobacco. Then Paypal agreed with me, and said they will bring it up at the meeting, but as you read the above it says permanently limited, in the mean while, I have other items on several sites, including Ebay, I cant take payments from. What should I do, or what can I do?
Thanks

northernstars · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 132 Location: USA

It sounds like you'll need to end all your listings everywhere you accept paypal. If someone pays you-- you won't get the money.

You also might want to read this.

http://www.tobacco-facts.net/2009/08/paypal-warned-about-e-cigarette-legal-liability

northernstars · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 132 Location: USA

There are a lot of horror stories on Google about those things. Sellers being sued. :shock:

You might want to find another product line ASAP and stick to sites where you can accept Google Checkout or you'll have to set up a merchant account.

2009-08-25 15:35:33 - A major retailer of electronic cigarettes has been sued in a multi-count civil action which seeks penalties of $25,000 for each sale as well as refunds to customers. Several other sellers of electronic cigarettes have avoided suits by entering into voluntary settlements, says public interest law professor John Banzhaf of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), the organization which wrote to state attorneys general asking them to bring this type of legal action against the sellers.

Article continued here:

http://www.pr-inside.com/electronic-cigarette-seller-sued-r1452385.htm

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

After reading your posts, I wouldn't want to sell them, I sell tobacco products for a living, that is bad enough. I have no problem pulling all the listings, but they decided ahead of time to permanently limit my account. This is the first time over these items, but this is what I got today:

We regret to inform you that we cannot overturn the limitation on your
account. Due to the violation of PayPal?s Acceptable Use Policy regarding
repeated violating sales of e-cigarettes, your account has been permanently
limited.

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
Ronita
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

I put all the ones on that site on hold, till I can delete entire site, and also removed logos, but still got the above.

Do you guess same rules apply to Buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/prod/smoking-everywhere-electronic-cigarette-gold-one-kit/q/listingid/80955869/loc/101/213884315.html

or:

http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarette-High-Strength-24mg-Carton/4395765/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12359199

Update, they closed my account & froze it for 180 days, with no previous warning for selling these items. They went beyond limiting my account, when I log in, it says they closed my account. The above listings are still active, when using them as reference in my defense, even 24 hours later. Paypal is like Ebay, they think nothing of the small seller, only the big ones. Thanks for all the advice, I know most of you are at there mercy.

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

wlcenterprises wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
After reading your posts, I wouldn't want to sell them, I sell tobacco products for a living, that is bad enough. I have no problem pulling all the listings, but they decided ahead of time to permanently limit my account. This is the first time over these items, but this is what I got today:

We regret to inform you that we cannot overturn the limitation on your
account. Due to the violation of PayPal?s Acceptable Use Policy regarding
repeated violating sales of e-cigarettes, your account has been permanently
limited.

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
Ronita
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

I put all the ones on that site on hold, till I can delete entire site, and also removed logos, but still got the above.

Do you guess same rules apply to Buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/prod/smoking-everywhere-electronic-cigarette-gold-one-kit/q/listingid/80955869/loc/101/213884315.html

or:

http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarette-High-Strength-24mg-Carton/4395765/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12359199

Unlike Ebay, everybody is at Paypals mercy, they are one and the same!

jjj525 · Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 354

If I were you I will remove listings from Buy.com as they also accept paypal and may result in seller account getting blocked.

I think the govt can sue paypal for selling tobacco related or like products as the IRS and state are desperate for money due to economic recession.

Buy.com even blocked my account for not entering tracking info on some items and unlocked my account only after sending them all the tracking number in a excel sheet.It took me a lot of time to complete the process.This is before they made tracking compulsory on all orders.

Don't email the idiot CSRs.Call them and insist on talking to a Supervisor.If you explain him/her about the situation and all the objectionable items is removed paypal will unlock the account again.

The paypal CSRs just read from a script and only in it for minimum wage.Supervisors are somewhat educated and understanding.

Best wishes.

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

jjj525 wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
If I were you I will remove listings from Buy.com as they also accept paypal and may result in seller account getting blocked.

I think the govt can sue paypal for selling tobacco related or like products as the IRS and state are desperate for money due to economic recession.

Buy.com even blocked my account for not entering tracking info on some items and unlocked my account only after sending them all the tracking number in a excel sheet.It took me a lot of time to complete the process.This is before they made tracking compulsory on all orders.

Don't email the idiot CSRs.Call them and insist on talking to a Supervisor.If you explain him/her about the situation and all the objectionable items is removed paypal will unlock the account again.

The paypal CSRs just read from a script and only in it for minimum wage.Supervisors are somewhat educated and understanding.

Best wishes.

The listings on Buy.com aren't mine, they are permitted by Paypal to list I guess. I have talked to them twice, the first time, spokesman agreed with me. The second time, they said there is no one in that department with access to telephone. Feel like getting an attorney to challenge this, but it would be like fighting the Whitehouse, they make up there rules as they go along, and for whom. Was told today I have a good case.
Thanks

thegolfingdolphin · Joined: 13 Jan 2009 Posts: 695

wlcenterprises - I have been in contact with you before about your product. I do not mean to be insulting, however at the time you gave me the impression that you are not an honorable company. I may be wrong however the way you handled our conversation told me that you are not a company I wish to refer a potential wholesale buyer to.

I feel like you do have some creditability here, as you have proven to me that the product in question is still being sold on eBay. The real question for me is why you have not given us enough information to figure this problem out?

Paypal does not just suspend accounts for the reasons outlined and proven here. To find out and correct your account there has to be more to the story. Try to figure out how a sale might have gone a bit different, or a feeling you had about a buyer, a question that did not seem proper. Review each buyers feedback for the last billing period. Something is out there that will lead you to the solution.

My guess is in communication with a buyer, and the wording used in the communication. I do not think it is in the description as you sell this item over and over again.

thegolfingdolphin · Joined: 13 Jan 2009 Posts: 695

You know after a second look I do not see your product on Ebay at all. I do however see a variation of your product there. Just not marketed the way you do. It is marketed the as a business, the same way you do off Ebay. It is also marketed as an accessory, but not the actual item.

I think this maybe your problem. it is the way you are marketing your product. I am sure the same product is there under a different category. You know your product better, look into electronic cigarette, and see how it is titled. You will find your problem here.

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

thegolfingdolphin wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
wlcenterprises - I have been in contact with you before about your product. I do not mean to be insulting, however at the time you gave me the impression that you are not an honorable company. I may be wrong however the way you handled our conversation told me that you are not a company I wish to refer a potential wholesale buyer to.

I feel like you do have some creditability here, as you have proven to me that the product in question is still being sold on eBay. The real question for me is why you have not given us enough information to figure this problem out?

Paypal does not just suspend accounts for the reasons outlined and proven here. To find out and correct your account there has to be more to the story. Try to figure out how a sale might have gone a bit different, or a feeling you had about a buyer, a question that did not seem proper. Review each buyers feedback for the last billing period. Something is out there that will lead you to the solution.

My guess is in communication with a buyer, and the wording used in the communication. I do not think it is in the description as you sell this item over and over again.
There is no other part to this story, I have been selling electronic gigs since Jan. on Blujay. I have had no indication that this item was not to be sold online by Paypal or anyone. I have no listings anywhere now, not due to Paypal, but due to the links a few replies back sent about the dangers of this item. People on Ebay are selling coupons for them, same thing, but what I used as reference to Paypal, on phone & e-mail was listings on Buy.com & Overstock. There is no other side to story, Paypal has not warned me about selling these ever, but stated in e-mail that they have. Myself selling for a tobacco company in Kentucky for a living, thought these items were a good thing to sell to help you quit smoking. I have asked on this site before about selling reg. tobacco products on the web, since I have great access to getting them, but after doing the home work, gave that ideal up. My argument to Paypal was why no warning, not listed in PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, how they can allow Buy.com, overstock, etc. to list same items & collect Paypal for them, how they allow my suppliers to accept Paypal to supply them with me, all these have went unanswered. I never have listed these on Ebay. Go to: http://www.repatoo.com/?action=login, and look up wlcenterprises, under ebay id. 100%!

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

wlcenterprises wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
thegolfingdolphin wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
wlcenterprises - I have been in contact with you before about your product. I do not mean to be insulting, however at the time you gave me the impression that you are not an honorable company. I may be wrong however the way you handled our conversation told me that you are not a company I wish to refer a potential wholesale buyer to.

I feel like you do have some creditability here, as you have proven to me that the product in question is still being sold on eBay. The real question for me is why you have not given us enough information to figure this problem out?

Paypal does not just suspend accounts for the reasons outlined and proven here. To find out and correct your account there has to be more to the story. Try to figure out how a sale might have gone a bit different, or a feeling you had about a buyer, a question that did not seem proper. Review each buyers feedback for the last billing period. Something is out there that will lead you to the solution.

My guess is in communication with a buyer, and the wording used in the communication. I do not think it is in the description as you sell this item over and over again.
There is no other part to this story, I have been selling electronic gigs since Jan. on Blujay. I have had no indication that this item was not to be sold online by Paypal or anyone. I have no listings anywhere now, not due to Paypal, but due to the links a few replies back sent about the dangers of this item. People on Ebay are selling coupons for them, same thing, but what I used as reference to Paypal, on phone & e-mail was listings on Buy.com & Overstock. There is no other side to story, Paypal has not warned me about selling these ever, but stated in e-mail that they have. Myself selling for a tobacco company in Kentucky for a living, thought these items were a good thing to sell to help you quit smoking. I have asked on this site before about selling reg. tobacco products on the web, since I have great access to getting them, but after doing the home work, gave that ideal up. My argument to Paypal was why no warning, not listed in PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, how they can allow Buy.com, overstock, etc. to list same items & collect Paypal for them, how they allow my suppliers to accept Paypal to supply them with me, all these have went unanswered. I never have listed these on Ebay. Go to: http://www.repatoo.com/?action=login, and look up wlcenterprises, under ebay id. 100%!

This is what my account says:
PayPal is constantly working to ensure security by regularly screening the accounts in our system. We recently reviewed your account, and we need more information to help us provide you with secure service. Until we can collect this information, your access to sensitive account features will be limited. We would like to restore your access as soon as possible, and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Why is my account access limited?

Your account access has been limited for the following reason(s):

Aug 2, 2010: In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy, we have closed your account. Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction. After 180 days, you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or, if applicable, a check from PayPal. Please update your address or bank information as we cannot be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address. We do ask that you please remove reference(s) to PayPal from your site.

(Your case ID for this reason is PP-001-033-479-506.)
This limitation cannot be appealed

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

wlcenterprises wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
After reading your posts, I wouldn't want to sell them, I sell tobacco products for a living, that is bad enough. I have no problem pulling all the listings, but they decided ahead of time to permanently limit my account. This is the first time over these items, but this is what I got today:

We regret to inform you that we cannot overturn the limitation on your
account. Due to the violation of PayPal?s Acceptable Use Policy regarding
repeated violating sales of e-cigarettes, your account has been permanently
limited.

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
Ronita
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

I put all the ones on that site on hold, till I can delete entire site, and also removed logos, but still got the above.

Do you guess same rules apply to Buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/prod/smoking-everywhere-electronic-cigarette-gold-one-kit/q/listingid/80955869/loc/101/213884315.html

or:

http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarette-High-Strength-24mg-Carton/4395765/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12359199

Update, they closed my account & froze it for 180 days, with no previous warning for selling these items. They went beyond limiting my account, when I log in, it says they closed my account. The above listings are still active, when using them as reference in my defense, even 24 hours later. Paypal is like Ebay, they think nothing of the small seller, only the big ones. Thanks for all the advice, I know most of you are at there mercy.

As of 8/12/10 Paypal has not taken any action against Buy.com & Overstock.com on removing there listings of the sell of electronic cigarettes. Paypal was notified 8/22/10 of listings. When placed in your carts, you have Paypal as payment option, and takes me as far as logging in, of course I cant purchase do to Paypal closing my account.

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

I closed all my listings everywhere for electronic cigarettes, but Buy.com & Overstock continue to sell same items, accepting Paypal. Look for yourself:

http://www.buy.com/prod/smoking-everywhere-electronic-cigarette-gold-one-kit/q/listingid/80955869/loc/101/213884315.html

http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarette-High-Strength-24mg-Carton/4395765/product.html?cid=123620&fp=F&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12359199

Clearly a case of discrimination.

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern regarding sales that
potentially violate PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy. We will investigate
the matter and take appropriate action as necessary.

Sincerely,
Amy
PayPal, Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
customer subject: Report prohibited items being sold using PayPal
customer message: The URL (web address) of the site selling the items
(optional):
'http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarett
e-High-Strength-##mg-Carton/#######/product.html?cid=####'
Additional Information:
'http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Liberty-Stix-Electronic-Cigarett
e-High-Strength-##mg-Carton/#######/product.html?cid=######&fp=F&ci_src=
########&ci_sku=########

Should I go forward with suit against Paypal? Is it even worth it? Buy.co continues also to sell this item, but both sites seem to be doing business as usual. This even prevents me from selling on Ebay. I cant believe the majority of users on this site are staying tight lipped on these postings. It appears Paypal\Ebay does dominant your online sales.

thegolfingdolphin · Joined: 13 Jan 2009 Posts: 695

wlcenterprises - We have given you suggestion and you dismiss them as not valid or unimportant. The problem appears to be you not this board. Here is the bottom line, If the two major e-commerce sites have ruled that they should not be sold on there sites, I feel sure all the others will do them same.

I read recently that these e-cigarettes have very bad health problems and if I was you I would dissolve my association with them, sell your inventory and reinvest in a different product line, this is just going to get worst as far as being able to sell them, get out now and let it go.

As far as going to court with Paypal, and Ebay, You really have to ask a attorney this question, this should of been done by now on your part. If you put the same effort in the proper steps that you are ranting about here, most of your questions would be understood by now.

wlcenterprises · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 13

thegolfingdolphin wrote (View Post): › docWrite("quote")
wlcenterprises - We have given you suggestion and you dismiss them as not valid or unimportant. The problem appears to be you not this board. Here is the bottom line, If the two major e-commerce sites have ruled that they should not be sold on there sites, I feel sure all the others will do them same.

I read recently that these e-cigarettes have very bad health problems and if I was you I would dissolve my association with them, sell your inventory and reinvest in a different product line, this is just going to get worst as far as being able to sell them, get out now and let it go.

As far as going to court with Paypal, and Ebay, You really have to ask a attorney this question, this should of been done by now on your part. If you put the same effort in the proper steps that you are ranting about here, most of your questions would be understood by now.

I seemed to have posted several times that all listings have been pulled from sites. Which was done before even listing here, so I don't know where you get suggestions are not valid, or unimportant. No other suggestions, outside of this, have I read. This site is suppose to help the small sellers, but if legal counsel is as informative as, suggestions as this site, money would be wasted. Just expected a little more from PSU, i guess. Theirs a no win win when it comes to Ebay\Paypal. This is not an issue over the items I was selling, because I dont have to sell them on the web, the issue is getting treated the same as Buy.com & Overstock.com, as well as many others, that Paypal turns there head.