Power Sellers Unite

drleadbasedpaint · Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 44

Buyer says he never rcvd pkge in spite of confirmed delivery. Now he's demanding a refund. Post Office says there's no recorse since the package is shown to be delivered. I have receipt, where I paid for Delivery Confirmation. Receipt has confirmation number on it. Also I have the green Delivery Confirmation form postmarked by the post office matching my receipt. Online lookup shows package delivered. Total transaction was about $76.

Am I going to be safe? or will PayPal just give him back his money anyway?

Buyer, eBay, PayPal are all from Hell, so I'm very concerned about getting burnt.

Please tell me what you think!

CrystalStar · Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 3571

If it were the post office...I'd say you were safe. But with PP doing some of the most ridiculous refunds I have ever heard of...be prepared for problems. Make sure you have all the paperwork and can prove that it was delivered. Still may not help though. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!!!

eeedoggies · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 623

actually i had a buyer say the same thing a few days ago... it showed delivery, but she said she never got it... wonder if there is something going on at the post office

CrystalStar · Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 3571

Maybe...had that happen last year. Sent out an item...when the buyer checked, the item was being returned to me. Sure enough it was...and I wasn't the only one that had the problem...it happened all across the country. Some kind of glitch...but the local Post Office never owned up to it being on their end!!

The item was resent without any added expense and reached the destination without a problem the second time around!!

ASLANstore · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 704 Location: MidWest

had the same thing happen to me a while back... all paperwork in order, even used PayPal shipping-so their proof of delivery was supposedly in-house. Through much pain and suffering, finally discovered that the package was "left" on the doorstep. Amazingly this was good enough information for PayPal...

Left at the doorstep is something which the post office says is perfectly acceptable, saying that we are only paying for CONFIRMATION of delivery.... which in essence, it was confirmed. They also added that this is the difference between the 55 cent (or 14 cent thru paypal) and the much more costly Signature confirmation, which of course cannot be left at the doorstep since someone must sign for it.

Alas, I tried that route. Since I do not charge for shipping and hide the price of shipping in my listing price, not only did this increase most of my midline priced items another dollar - but I quickly learned that at least half my customers were annoyed that they had to go to the post office to sign for it because they weren't home when the postman/woman attempted delivery.

This turns out to be another one of those system traps between eBay & PayPal that leave one extremely frustrated and open to abuse.

Marty

kookbox · Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 112

I can't even count the number of times I've had confirmed deliveries on packages and gotten complaints they weren't received. In all cases the packages were either delivered and someone at the residence put it somewhere where the recipient didn't see it or they were sitting at the post office in the recipient's location and they simply didn't see the notice.

As a rule I say once I've got an actual confirmation that it's delivered, it's delivered, LOL!

Oh, and one time the dog picked up the package and carried it off to his doghouse. No, I'm not kidding, LOL! The owner said the dog did this numerous times.

EleganzaJewels · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 519

Boy, the PO is sure getting MUCH more shoddy than it ever was. I am seriously considering using only UPS, if only for the tracking ability.

Recently, had a lady email me, said she got her ring, was not happy with it, wanted to do an exchange. I checked the DC#, it said delivery was attempted on 9/9 and a notice was left. I went over this with the customer, and she perfectly described my packing. I used colored boxes, mauve to match my store colors, nowhere is it described on my store, and she knew that the top of the envelope was taped, and several other unique things about my packaging. So I knew she had the ring in hand! I told her to go ahead and send it back, and we did the exchange (it just got back here yesterday).

Here is the DC: 2305 0270 0000 2179 9672
It's still showing as undelivered LOL!

Also, and on an even more serious note, ordered about $200 worth of jewelry (wholesale, so the retail value was definitely MUCH higher than that!) from one of my most reliable sources. They generally ship USPS 2nd day, and so I was keeping an eye out for the postman when I expected delivery. He popped it in my mailbox, I went and got it -to find an envelope that had been steamed open, the sticky part was still closed over, but someone had steamed, then pried open carefully, the top layer of the flap and all the jewelry was GONE!

Fortunately, since I'm such a longstanding customer, my supplier went ahead and shipped a 2nd set of jewelry at no charge. I told them (and I tell you), always smart to complately tape over the flap once you close the envelope!

Should do a poll here on USPS and UPS, which do you prefer lol

PS: I always add signature required on any address that has a unit number, as waell as all business address deliveries. Things seem to arrive in the customers' hands most of the time that way!

mickeysamouse · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 7

I had a similar problem over the last Holiday season and had 40 plus shipments go missing in action. I lost because the receipt you get from PayPal says only that a label was created and that the post office was notified to expect the item for mailing -- not an acknowledgement that they ever received it-- you are not covered at all with that. The Post Office told me that anyone can create labels all day long and never ship the items -- they told me pretty much tough luck. The Post Office says they do not scan the parcels until they've been delivered and accepted no liability for the missing boxes. Most of them showed up about a month later - after I had reshipped the merchandise at my expense - Ouch! Now, I ship via UPS Ground whenever possible. And, in those rare instances I do have to use USPS, I only use Priority Mail, have have them scan it into their system and get a receipt for the box when I drop it at the Post Office -- I never leave it for my carrier. Good luck! jeanne

ASLANstore · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 704 Location: MidWest

And see I feel the opposite - if I see tape instead of the average seal, THEN I suspect tampering... just me I guess.

and one thing I discovered a year or so ago:
DEMAND A REFUND for those delivery confirmations that are showing as undeliverable! At first, I thought this was silly since PayPal only charges 14 cents - but when I refunded one too many customers for undelivered goods (according to DC# tracking), then I started to evaluate cost. Also, don't put it past some shady customers to know how this game works too... but more importantly i wanted to do my part in making the postal service accountable.

So here's the scoop - my local postmaster tells me that these delivery persons are graded each month by their superiors for how many were scanned and how many were missed! So it's actually in their best interest to make sure it gets scanned as delivered.... but of course this doesnt always solve the problem and i would say about 15 out of my average 300 packages per month go as unscanned. Which is interesting, because my customers have already left me positive feedback for fast delivery, etc! So the customer got it, but the postal service shows no proof of delivery.

So this is basically services paid for and not recieved. So once a month, I spend about 30 minutes at the usps website checking on delivery confirmations. I know, it's half an hour for a measly $2 refund.... but the most important thing is: my postmaster has to refund this money, when SHE didnt do anything wrong. So this kinda ticks her off (but she's cool and doesnt displace that rage on me lol, she takes it up with her superiors). So the word gets out to superiors, and she informed me that before she knew it, even higher ups were calling her wanting to know the nature of these little refunds (they hate paying US money lol)

Long story longer is that I have seen these failed DC's less and less.

anwyay - demand a refund lol
Marty

EleganzaJewels · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 519

Tape keeps 'em from being able to steam the envelope open. If they try to take the tape off, bits of the yellow packagaing will tear off, too, and it will show on the envelope.

Good idea about asking for a refund, doggone it, I'm going to do it from now on! $2 is $2 - I sure wouldn't set fire to a $2 and call it a good day, why do the same with the failed DC's?

ASLANstore · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 704 Location: MidWest

excellent point lol.... and if I set fire to two bucks I suppose my day would be ruined - cuz that's all I'd be thinking about all day is how I burnt $2!!!

another tip - there is a special "form" you need to request from the post office for those refunds. They will require hard copies of your shipping receipts (the other half of the page that PayPal prints if you use their shipping) and it usually takes about 2 weeks for refund.... which is silly since the refund is soley at the discretion of the local postmaster.

...and be prepared for the clerk to have no idea what you are talking about! I had to show a print out from the usps website proving that I am entitled to a refund for services not rendered.

Marty

EleganzaJewels · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 519

There ya go, Marty, that's what I'd be thinking all day, too LOL!

THanks for the info on the forms, that way I won't have to make 3 trips to the post office.

I told the clerk last time I had something go bonkers shipped USPS, "you guys are making UPS look better by the day!"

sparkysindy · Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3

If I may add to this. I shipped to different dolls out thru USPS, both international. Neither have made it there, from 3 months ago. I even called over seas to make sure before I refunded any monies. Both of the dolls were worth over 2000 each!! After I lost all the money with USPS, I have switched to using DHL for ALL lower 48 states only. USPS only get my international shippments and thats it. If you call your local DHL office or on-line they will cut the prices on shipping even MORE if your a high volume seller. Make sure you ask for the software to do the shipping with, their site is a little slow sometimes on doing labels. OOOO and they are much cheeper than UPS and so far after 4 months, nothing lost or broken. Unlike USPS. I have tried UPS and do not like them. It cost me $5.00 more to ship thru them versis DHL before I even had an account rep come out and really set me up. After you sign up with DHL online, call and ask for your sales rep number. This is who will be giving you a major discount on your shipping and insurance cost. And only your sales rep can do this. They will come to you and bring all the number with them for you. Takers about an hour, so make plans for them. I went from spending 500 a month to 280 a month on shipping using DHL mind you this was the first two months of starting out on the bay thing. Insurance is free upto $100.00 and only cost me $.50 for extra instead of a full $1.00. This savings does add up a great deal. I use a flat rate shipping in all my listings using zone 8, which is the farthest and have saved everyone money by swithcing to DHL. I can not ship the same item the USPS wants $9.80, UPS wants $7.85 and dhl only want $6.98. And they even pick up right from my door for only $8.00 per week verses $3.00 per box. Make sure you tell them you want to be put on a route so you only pay the $8.00 per week. Even with that, I am still saving my customers money and by sales have gone up since I have switched to them. Can ya tell I like DHL?? And no I am not a sales rep or anything just really like them over all the rest.

Thanks
Mike

ASLANstore · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 704 Location: MidWest

That's really interesting Mike...

I wonder if they can "route" me in a rural area.

By the way, what's the typical weight of your packages? About how many do you ship out per week to "qualify" you for that discounted rate for multiple shipments?

Also - I assume you cannot use PayPal for DHL shipments - thus, the potential problem of not having their internal tracking by going thru their system... resulting in the dreaded charge-back for a PayPal transaction gone bad

Marty

sparkysindy · Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3

I ship out mostly between 3-5 pounds per item, and about 10-15 per week. Some things do weight more, but most items are in that field. You have to just commit to them picking up for at least a min. of 3 days per week. If you do not want them to pick up a certain day so you can play catch up, have them remove you from that day. You can go into paypal and add the tracking information into that payment. I do it all the time. You just need to talk to a sales rep give them an approx dollar amount you are spending thru usps and the total packages per week your sending out, the more your doing thru usps that they can get from them, the better the price gets. But do not forget to get the flat $8.00 per week pick-up and the stand alone software. As for your location, they should still come out and get it. This you will need to talk to them about. Right now, I am on a "slinding" scale for about three months for them to see how much I am shipping out. If you have $500.00 worth or more going out in shipping cost, make sure they give you the FREE lasor printer also. If your shipping cost are more than $2000.00 per month, ask about the FREE laptop computer system that they give to high end shippers. They tend to give more for those who ship in higher shipping volume. All I do is copy and paste the address from within paypal into DHL address, print my shipping lable, lables are free from DHL, click the add tracking information into paypal, inter it select DHL as carrier save and done. This sounds like alot of steps, but at least paypal and buyer can still tracking it. To give you an idea of how fast they are sometimes, I will ship somthing out one day to go 2 states away from Indiana, its there the next day!! It also tells you on your waybill when it is to be deleivered to your buyer. They also do not just leave it at the door step like USPS does, at least for me. They make sure it gets where its going.

Thanks
Mike