Power Sellers Unite

diesel · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 145

How many ways are there for a dishonest or fraudulent buyer to scam an honest seller via Paypal:

Please review and correct if my understanding is correct

1. Buyer pays via Paypal, seller sends item, buyer receives item. Then buyer claims that it is "SNAD", then paypal freezes the funds of the seller.

a. after the dispute process (either seller agrees for a partial refund or buyer should ship back to the seller).

b. buyer ships back an item which is not what he received from the seller.

c. seller is either left with frozen funds, or lesser funds or something that he has not sold and no funds.

2. Buyer pays via Paypal, seller sends item, buyer receives item. Then buyer claims that the item was not received since there is no tracking number since it was shipped via regular registered mail or anything which is not fedex, ups, dhl, ems.

a. after the dispute process, paypal refunds the money since there is no tracking number.

b. the seller is left with no item and no funds.

3. Buyer pays via Paypal, seller sends item, buyer receives item. Then buyer claims via his Credit Card that the transaction was not authorized.

a. Paypal and credit card company undergo a dispute

b. Paypal loses dispute as always

c. Paypal freezes the funds of seller and then reverses the payment

d. Seller is left with nothing as usual.

Where is the "Seller Protection Policy" if it is totally flawed?

Moneybookers does not have anything as complex as what Paypal has moneybookers does not create any headaches and does not even have disputes to begin with.

Due to the verification process of moneybookers, it is impossible for a buyer to claim that a transaction was "not authorized" and therefore there cannot be any chargebacks.

And there is no stupid SNAD or Not received policies to complicate matters. Everything in moneybookers is based on trust due to the strict verification process.

It is no wonder that these online-casinos or sites use moneybookers since if they used paypal, they might go out of business if attacked by fraudulent paypal users.

Any thoughts?

frontporchdreaming · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 877 Location: s/e USA

Well diesel looks like you have Paypal pretty well understood. They could not care less about the seller and have no compunction about protecting fraudulent buyers. Yup that's thier way of doing "business" and they get away with it. Additionally, the seller pays thru the nose for that priviledge.

Maybe I'll go check out moneybookers. Was thinking of looking into Google's system for payments. The problem is PP has buyers hoodwinked into thinking they are the only safe show in town but then Greedbay was traveling that road and look what happened. Not the only show in town anymore, so there may be hope to send PP down that same slick and slippery road. LOL

joflora · Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 1760

Paypal has EBAYERS hoodwinked. Buyers on the net outside of ebay in many cases have never even heard of paypal! They simply want to be able to pay with their credit card.

nopaypal · Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 2008

paypal now has a service where people pay with their CC thru paypal on a site, even if they dont have an account. in fact, i hadda do that on one site, because it was the only option! GRR!
:evil: :evil:

diesel · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 145

Paypal is definitely mismanaged or their system is totally mixed-up.

For example, there are "verified members" and "unverified members" not to mention "confirmed address" and "unconfirmed address".

With moneybookers, everyone is verified by a strict process and everyone has a confirmed address since we all had to give out our billing addresses, utility bills etc. To verify my bank, I also gave them my bank details with bank statement.

In short, they completely know who they are dealing with.

It seems that the number of "Pure Paypal" users are declining and the number of new paypal users have slowed-down.

The things that drive Paypal's growth are:
1. Ebay (and this drives Ebay's growth too) - pushing people to use Paypal as the "safest" thing around.
2. New anti-Ebay auction sites that still allow Paypal (I find this contradictory). The auction site wants to compete with ebay and yet gives ebay income for every single transaction. If you calculate it, Ebay is making more money from these new anti-Ebay auction sites than the auction sites themselves. Funny.
3. People who are too accustomed to Paypal that they would not try anything else or move outside their comfort zones.

To those who are "stuck" in Paypal... please remember that there are other Payment Processors out there that are much better than Paypal.

fruity · Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 375

DIesel, the lijnk to the forums you posted has been pulled?

This is just another way for ebay to build on their brand and force your business into a corner and use THEIR tools. You know SHOPNBC that opened up their outlet the other month on ebay? They don't accept paypal, in fact on all their ads they say they will do a $5 charge to your credit card for verification purposes and then refund back to the buyer. How many of us do you think could get away with that?

You mark my words, ebays new feedback system is going to give alot of sellers who do not ship to unconfirmed addresses or do not accept paypal at all alot of negatives.

ebay = bullies ie use what we tell you to use, or else!

diesel · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 145

ChopSueySisters, yes you are right. ...but it was there before. Maybe they have someone come here once in a while to read then "edit" their message boards.

I think its the fastest way for them to clean their boards...by going here first.

I hope they realize that they have made Paypal into a totally un-safe payment system for sellers and merchants. It just so happens that there are many users due to ebay only.

Anyone still want to use paypal, this is what ebayers are saying
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000372575&start=80

Good luck!

2ndhandrosefrommo · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 456

Bump!